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Iron Horse View Drop Down
whiskered
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Joined: 20 Nov 2014
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Points: 5876 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Iron Horse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2017 at 11:01pm
Double 0, I do believe you've put the cart before the horse! LOLEmbarrassed
IG: ritestuff_bryan
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Iron Horse View Drop Down
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Points: 5876 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Iron Horse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2017 at 8:06pm
A little follow-up to Double 0's question about ventilation eyelets on the rear yoke, I remembered that John mentioned to me in Sendai that he thought the original patent for this style belonged to one Champion; he was right, the earliest-known design in this vein (to my knowledge, please correct if wrong) was filed in 1928-29 by John W. Champion:






His reasoning for the back/shoulder yoke vent holes was two-fold: one, to provide ventilation, and two, to provide extra stitching to keep the double layer of fabric better in place (the same would go for the front yokes as well).

I quote:

"A group of ventilating eyelets 17 are preferably placed under the Serial No. 308,936. arm pits and through both thicknesses of the front pieces, and serve not only as ventilating eyelets but as further means of holding the superposed layers of material in place."

"The ventilating function of the eyelets provides a comforting coolness to the shoulder of the wearer at the region where the binding strain is the greatest and also at the region where the goods is of double thickness and consequently more inclined to feel hot. It is to be noted also that the eyelets are so placed that while coming substantially in the line of strain, they are placed at positions in the goods where the line of strain runs at a. bias to the straight of the goods. As a result the eyelets are not so easily torn as they would be if they were placed where the strain came along the straight of the goods and the goods could not stretch."
IG: ritestuff_bryan
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Iron Horse View Drop Down
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Points: 5876 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Iron Horse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 10:42pm
Little update: just put an order in to have XL and XXL made for the Heracles shirt. Cool
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haler View Drop Down
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Joined: 16 Jul 2013
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Points: 3154 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote haler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2017 at 11:02am
Thank you for thinking of those of us who can't control their cheeseburger intake.
roots in the desert.
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Iron Horse View Drop Down
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Points: 5876 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Iron Horse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2017 at 6:25pm
If someone has a problem with cheeseburgers then they've got a problem. 

I could go for some of that right about now too. Big smile
IG: ritestuff_bryan
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lim View Drop Down
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Joined: 31 Dec 2015
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote lim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 12:38am
Originally posted by Iron Horse Iron Horse wrote:

A little follow-up to Double 0's question about ventilation eyelets on the rear yoke, I remembered that John mentioned to me in Sendai that he thought the original patent for this style belonged to one Champion; he was right, the earliest-known design in this vein (to my knowledge, please correct if wrong) was filed in 1928-29 by John W. Champion:






His reasoning for the back/shoulder yoke vent holes was two-fold: one, to provide ventilation, and two, to provide extra stitching to keep the double layer of fabric better in place (the same would go for the front yokes as well).

I quote:

"A group of ventilating eyelets 17 are preferably placed under the Serial No. 308,936. arm pits and through both thicknesses of the front pieces, and serve not only as ventilating eyelets but as further means of holding the superposed layers of material in place."

"The ventilating function of the eyelets provides a comforting coolness to the shoulder of the wearer at the region where the binding strain is the greatest and also at the region where the goods is of double thickness and consequently more inclined to feel hot. It is to be noted also that the eyelets are so placed that while coming substantially in the line of strain, they are placed at positions in the goods where the line of strain runs at a. bias to the straight of the goods. As a result the eyelets are not so easily torn as they would be if they were placed where the strain came along the straight of the goods and the goods could not stretch."







Wow great find on that patent! Very much a fan of this shirt design.
As far as I know there are 4 other versions of this shirt with that same double yoke/ double elbow configuration - PowrHouse (wards), Compass (JC Penney), Milton FGoodman and this Hercules.

I wonder if any pics of that Champion are floating around?? I know Cabourn has an original of the Hercules.
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Iron Horse View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 Nov 2014
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Points: 5876 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Iron Horse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 2:11am
Lim, I've not been able to find any images of an existing Champion shirt, though Workers did a straight repro of it I believe last year, though with some Big Yank details such as the logo button and label.

I'm hoping a Champion shows up in a barn someday!
IG: ritestuff_bryan
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lim View Drop Down
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Joined: 31 Dec 2015
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Points: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 10:12am
Ahh yes! Some lovely fabrics they chose too. Funny they called it the Milton F Goodman, but did the regular placket instead of doing the popover version. Has anyone done the true 4 button placket style?
ig: riding_fakie
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Iron Horse View Drop Down
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Joined: 20 Nov 2014
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Points: 5876 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iron Horse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 5:32pm
Lim, I think you mean this shirt (this ad is in the mail on the way to me too :)



To my knowledge no, I've never seen anyone repro this shirt as a popover. Something for me to consider making. :D

Edit: Spoke too soon, sort of; a small brand from the UK called the Worker's Club did a chambray very similar to the Milton F. Goodman shirt, but there are no ventilation holes, the pockets are different, the front placket has an arrow shape, and the front and back yokes don't connect, similar to the below shirt from a 1928-29 Montgomery Ward catalog:








Edited by Iron Horse - 02 Jul 2017 at 8:30pm
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Inimitable N! View Drop Down
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Joined: 06 Sep 2016
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Points: 362 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Inimitable N! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 12:17pm
great looking work!
N! Makes 21st Century Urban Folk Art
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