LVC analysis

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Sansome and I talked it over and decided it would be a good idea to document and discuss the accuracy of all the LVC denim and duck models, starting with the earliest repros. Obviously this will take some time. Dr_Heech and I compared notes and I think I have a comprehensive list of the relevant releases. A couple things first:
 Sometimes these discussions get heated, which is great, but let's not actually call each other names over the historical accuracy of LVC.
 Let's be respectful of LVC as well. They have made obvious mistakes over the years, and it's fine to point that out here, but some mistakes were based on lack of data and archival garments, while others were based on financial considerations or, occasionally I suppose, carelessness. Let's give the benefit of the doubt.
 For the earliest stuff, Sansome & non-riveted have collected a lot of relevant garments that shed new light on these, so this could be a learning experience for Levi's & LVC as well as Denimbros.
 I figure when we get to around the 1920s other experts will take over from NR & S, as this is getting outside of their period of interest.

First up is a denim 1873 repro. This should represent Levi's very earliest riveted pant. This example was made at Taylor Togs in 2007 from Japanese natural indigo denim. There is another repo called the "Oldest Oldest" which more closely represents the earliest Levi's- be patient and keep that in mind while we're looking at this one, which was LVC's first attempt at reproing Levi's first riveted pant. We'll get to the "Oldest Oldest" in a moment.

Edited by mr randal - 28 Oct 2012 at 11:54am

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mr randal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List ADMIN MDLD Joined: 12 Jan 2012 Status: Offline Points: 50863	Post Options Post Reply Quote mr randal Report Post Thanks(7) Quote Reply Topic: LVC analysis Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 5:14pm
	Sansome and I talked it over and decided it would be a good idea to document and discuss the accuracy of all the LVC denim and duck models, starting with the earliest repros. Obviously this will take some time. Dr_Heech and I compared notes and I think I have a comprehensive list of the relevant releases. A couple things first: Sometimes these discussions get heated, which is great, but let's not actually call each other names over the historical accuracy of LVC. Let's be respectful of LVC as well. They have made obvious mistakes over the years, and it's fine to point that out here, but some mistakes were based on lack of data and archival garments, while others were based on financial considerations or, occasionally I suppose, carelessness. Let's give the benefit of the doubt. For the earliest stuff, Sansome & non-riveted have collected a lot of relevant garments that shed new light on these, so this could be a learning experience for Levi's & LVC as well as Denimbros. I figure when we get to around the 1920s other experts will take over from NR & S, as this is getting outside of their period of interest. First up is a denim 1873 repro. This should represent Levi's very earliest riveted pant. This example was made at Taylor Togs in 2007 from Japanese natural indigo denim. There is another repo called the "Oldest Oldest" which more closely represents the earliest Levi's- be patient and keep that in mind while we're looking at this one, which was LVC's first attempt at reproing Levi's first riveted pant. We'll get to the "Oldest Oldest" in a moment. Edited by mr randal - 28 Oct 2012 at 11:54am

mr randal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List ADMIN MDLD Joined: 12 Jan 2012 Status: Offline Points: 50863	Post Options Post Reply Quote mr randal Report Post Thanks(4) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 5:20pm


Dr_Heech Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MODERATOR Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Location: Mostly outdoors Status: Offline Points: 26168	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dr_Heech Report Post Thanks(2) Quote Reply Posted: 27 Oct 2012 at 11:59pm
	Call each other names!?! Come on Randy, we're far too mature on this board for that malarky. I like that pair anyway. Compared to the earlier, Valencia St versions. The arcuate is definately more representitive of those early models for a start (also the originals only has three fly buttons, not four I believe). I think overall, the 1873 model has improved gradually over the years Here's a pair from 1998, notice the shallower arc. Edited by Dr_Heech - 28 Oct 2012 at 12:38am

mr randal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List ADMIN MDLD Joined: 12 Jan 2012 Status: Offline Points: 50863	Post Options Post Reply Quote mr randal Report Post Thanks(2) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 9:56am
	Ah- I didn't realize the 1873 had changed over the years. Any other differences between the 2007 & 1998 model that you see, Heech? And what are the various released version of this model- a raw natural indigo version from both 1998 and 2007, a washed version from 2000 (pictured below) and was there a raw synthetic indigo release from 1999 or 2000? That sounds familiar…

Dr_Heech Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MODERATOR Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Location: Mostly outdoors Status: Offline Points: 26168	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dr_Heech Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 10:09am
	Yeah those are the natural indigo. There was a synthetic indigo version of the 1873, made around 1999/9, which had the '822' code, instead of the usual '555'. There was also a distressed wash around 99/2000 and another like the one you have pictured, from the same time with the patches, but some of them were tan leather or corduroy I think? Just noticed the 2006 ones you posted haven't got the flattened rivets like the 1998 ones. Edited by Dr_Heech - 28 Jan 2013 at 1:48pm

setterman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MODERATOR Joined: 22 Jan 2012 Location: NWPA Status: Offline Points: 6156	Post Options Post Reply Quote setterman Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 11:56am
	Really looking forward to some details about the early models. And I'll be on my best behavior, at least for the early models. The post WWII models should be examples of reproduction perfection! As a side note, gave my '47s another wash today hoping they'd lose another inch in inseam. No such luck, they're stalled out at 32" (tagged 34). I guess I'm going to have to pay to have them hemmed.
	I got a rocket in my pocket and roll in my jeans

Shorty Long Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List whiskered Joined: 23 Apr 2012 Status: Offline Points: 3802	Post Options Post Reply Quote Shorty Long Report Post Thanks(2) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 12:14pm
	yes...we should also try as best we can to document the changes of a particular model over the years...it's pretty interesting to think about how much LVC itself has "evolved"

mr randal Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List ADMIN MDLD Joined: 12 Jan 2012 Status: Offline Points: 50863	Post Options Post Reply Quote mr randal Report Post Thanks(2) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 12:29pm
	Moved all posts to this new thread so as not to deter people talking about regular LVC stuff. Edited by mr randal - 28 Oct 2012 at 12:35pm

Dr_Heech Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List MODERATOR Joined: 23 Jan 2012 Location: Mostly outdoors Status: Offline Points: 26168	Post Options Post Reply Quote Dr_Heech Report Post Thanks(1) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 2:21pm
	Dont know about you guys, but I was really excited about this model when it first came out. I first saw them in Cinch; they were the synthetic/darker mode.l I remember just picking up a pair and staring at them in awe. I'd never even seen a photo of an original pair, but here I was able to actually buy a pair of THEE first Levi's. Raw/New. In my size ( .. allegedly ) I just stared at the patch for some twenty minutes, whilst some 'expert' told me how the patch was reproduced from several scraps which came from several pairs.. etc (I didn't buy them in the end, as when I returned to the shop two weeks later, I was swayed by the release of the '33 model, and the added safety of beltloops). Edited by Dr_Heech - 29 Oct 2012 at 12:11am

colgems1966 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List whiskered Joined: 31 Jan 2012 Location: Ga Status: Offline Points: 623	Post Options Post Reply Quote colgems1966 Report Post Thanks(2) Quote Reply Posted: 28 Oct 2012 at 6:16pm
	the 33 doesn't get much love but i think it is one of their better releases and has THE best looking arcs of any model IMO.