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Denim DNA

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ranonranonarat View Drop Down
whiskered
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ranonranonarat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2013 at 9:21pm
very cool. looking forward to hearing more about the reports.
faithless, the wonderboy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2013 at 5:58am
Interesting thread.  Another interesting tidbit linking Greensboro to the cotton trade:

 Eli Whitney only invented the superior version of the cotton gin in 1792 after noticing long-staple cotton (Sea Island) differed greatly from short-staple cotton (upland), and required much more labor to remove the green cotton seeds while visiting Mrs. Greene's plantation in South Carolina. The very Mrs. Greene that I speak of just so happened to be the widow of a great Revolutionary War General for the United States of America by the name of Nathanael Greene. Greensboro remains connected to the cotton industry more than we can ever know.

This is super important because the development of the cotton gin allowed for the long staple cotton to be more readily used in the weaving of denim.  Upland (short staple cotton) was great because the seeds were so easy to remove, but Sea Island was the ideal length in staple for achieving the durability in the weaving of heavy duty work garments. 

Also interesting is that 1792 until 1861 is all of the time it required for cotton to become king and a war to break out over the decision to end slavery.  


Edited by Conehead - 21 Jul 2013 at 12:48pm
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Sansome View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (7) Thanks(7)   Quote Sansome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2013 at 12:14am
Here is the Sea island cotton family tree.


4 1870's Levi samples were tested- 3 of the samples tested were originally thrown away in 1874....So i am assuming that the pieces are from 1873-74....Two of these 3 Levi pieces tested positive for your standard upland cotton- The other 1873-74 Levi piece was not determined. The 4rth sample was from and thrown away in 1878....This is a Levi waistband piece with tiny cinch straps and no back pocket, i have labeled it as being from 1873-74.....This is the sample that tested positive for sea island cotton. Its too early to make any predictions but the sample that tested positive for sea island cotton can be 1 of 2 things i figure. No 1 its totally random- We know Levi bought what ever kind of denim they could get a hold of -off the ships- in 1876 they started getting a steady supply from Amoskeag. No 2 I have mislabeled this Levi piece from, what looks to be a 1873-74 Levi -might be from later in the 1870's?
If I can get some one to pay for more testing- I have late 1870's Levi pieces and Neustadter pieces that I know now are Amoskeag denim....It turns out that the Neustadter Bros also got a steady supply of Amoskeag starting around 1876....More testing is needed to see if Amoskeag was using sea island cotton in the late 1870's. The number one piece that i want to test is my late 1880's XX pant- Its using Amoskeag's premium denim......Will it test positive for Mit Afifi? Mit Afifi was Ashmouni and sea island cotton crossed in 1882. I will post pictures of the four pieces tested in a few days.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (8) Thanks(8)   Quote Sansome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2013 at 1:27am
This is the piece that tested positive for the sea island cotton.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr_Heech Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2013 at 8:10am
Exciting stuff, thanks for the updates!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote haler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2013 at 7:46pm
This is quite fascinating.  

Not really knowing anything about sewing or fabric making, is the thread used for stitching sourced from the same cotton as the denim?  Could it also be used to confirm, corroborate, or dispel the existing theories? 
roots in the desert.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote flatpattern Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2013 at 9:39pm
Really interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Maynard Fried-San Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jul 2013 at 11:17pm
I've had a few unsuccessful attempts at dating denim - I could never get past first base. I'll stick with the laydeez for now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sansome Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jul 2013 at 8:00am
Originally posted by haler haler wrote:

This is quite fascinating.  

Not really knowing anything about sewing or fabric making, is the thread used for stitching sourced from the same cotton as the denim?  Could it also be used to confirm, corroborate, or dispel the existing theories? 


Good question- I'm not really sure, we only tested denim and duck so far...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote entertainment! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 5:09am
When I clicked on this thread, I thought it was about DNA in a metaphorical sense.  All I can do is add my voice to the chorus of praise.  Threads like this are the reason I follow denimbro. (Still hoping to see your finds in person someday, Sansome!)
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